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Old 03-14-10, 11:06 AM  
Hej
 
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Thanks, pfstrikes, for the info.

I didn't mean by my post that I thought directors or camera people were ogling the performers. I was pointing more to the possibility that some fitness videos might be structured by an assumed male gaze, much as Mulvey has argued happens in traditional Hollywood narrative film. What is meant by the "male gaze" is that the way the visual images are set up structurally channels the viewing in a certain, gendered way. It does not mean that that the people working on the set are behaving unprofessionally or thinking sexual thoughts. Those are two different things.

When a participant is in a live class, it's relatively rare, if ever, that they see a completely disembodied body part the way you see one in a video closeup. In video, whether or not closeups are warranted in order to "allow the viewer to see the move" they are always objectifying in the sense that the body part is separated from the body and the person it is a part of. It is a part, a thing, rather than a person. And often it's not even helpful for someone trying to mirror the move, because body parts always move in relation to the whole.

That's true whether the disembodied part in the video is a highly sexualized one in our culture (e.g. the female breasts or buttocks) or relatively unsexualized (e.g. the feet). For example, I find the choreography in one of the TLT Yorktowns extremely difficult to follow even though it's extremely basic choreography because there are so many closeups of body parts and relatively few of the whole body doing the move. I can't recreate step choreography if the only body parts I can see are the feet, even though I'm mostly pretty good at complex choreography. I remember thinking to myself, "Who thought this was a good idea? Where's Greg Twombly when you need him?"

When it's a "sexualized part" that's diisembodied and hard to recreate, I really start to wonder, "Why are you showing me this? Why do you think I want to see this? Do you (video makers) want to see this? It's not helping me to do the move, so what's going on..."

What you say about inexperienced camera people and directors makes sense. As I've said I always appreciate how easy CIA productions or others Twombly produces are to follow. I guess that's because he knows what the viewer needs to see to be able to follow and is experienced enough to know how to shoot and edit for that.
The only one I can think of that's really confusing is Heather Ryder's and that was because one of her background exercisers made so many mistakes and spoiled the clearest shots.

On the other hand, sometimes the sexualization is deliberate, and it reflects and reinforces the way the structuring male gaze in media images of women teach everyday women to view themselves. One reason the classic Firm leads were so highly sexualized wasn't because Anna was a lesbian (I don't know anything about her sexuality) or marketing to a male audience, it was simply because at that time sexy, feminine women did not lift weights. Jane Fonda was the "fit" female ideal.

Women, especially overweight women, were told to avoid weights or risk "becoming mannish" or "bulking up". The legwarmers, leotards, chains, pancake makeup, and extreme thinness (paired with strength) and the pouty lips, sultry voices, flirty glances and all the rest of it were designed to counteract this-- to convince women that AWT would make them sexy. As time went on, and cultural images of women and fitness for women slowly evolved, the Firms became decidedly less over-the-top sexy.

Still, when you look at the titles and styling of a lot of workout DVDs it's undeniable that they're being deliberately marketed as ways to increase "sexiness". There's always an implied promise with workout videos: "Do as I do and you'll look like I do." Many people come right out and say they find an instructor's physique inspiring even when they know she didn't get that way from the workout and they themselves can't reasonably expect such "results".

And the particular ideal being sold-- its degree of "sexiness", femininity, functionality, health, beauty, whatever--is deliberately built right into the images shown on the cover art and in the video content.
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Old 03-14-10, 12:52 PM  
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I understood what you said. I was just sharing my experiences, which came to my mind as I was reading this thread and which I thought were interesting, not making an argument. I went to a very strident New England women's college and I know all about the various feminist theories. Whoa! Back to grad school! While I understood all those arguments and have of course found institutionalized and culturally ingrained gender assumptions frustrating and maddening, I personally found all the focus on how the male gaze was controlling my perceptions to be equally oppressive and victimizing. If I allowed every image to be sexualized or gendered for me based on either what we now (or at least in the 70s and 80s) call the male gaze or the various reactive (albeit necessary) feminist dialogues, I would a very different person, and much less comfortable in the world, I think. Real freedom is having the ability to think critically, make your own decisions and choices, and value your own experiences and impressions and those of others, regardless of what seems to be being imposed on you from outside, from any camp.

I don't think anyone who finds these images uncomfortable a prude. I think even that is a term which can make us feel bad about our true feelings, which are what they are, and they vary from person to person, as they should. We are not ideological automatons, nor should we be. It's best that we can all either enjoy what we see on various videos or not, based on our own personal history and impressions.
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Old 03-14-10, 02:41 PM  
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Originally Posted by pfstrikes View Post
While I understood all those arguments and have of course found institutionalized and culturally ingrained gender assumptions frustrating and maddening, I personally found all the focus on how the male gaze was controlling my perceptions to be equally oppressive and victimizing. If I allowed every image to be sexualized or gendered for me based on either what we now (or at least in the 70s and 80s) call the male gaze or the various reactive (albeit necessary) feminist dialogues, I would a very different person, and much less comfortable in the world, I think. Real freedom is having the ability to think critically, make your own decisions and choices, and value your own experiences and impressions and those of others, regardless of what seems to be being imposed on you from outside, from any camp.
I thought you were replying to me, since you quoted me. My mistake.

I agree with you that just because a text is structured in a certain way it doesn't have to be read that way. It sounds like Mulvey's idea was presented in a much more highly politically charged "gender atmosphere" on campus than it is nowadays.

I liked it because it opened my eyes to certain things, and helped me understand certain things. It made me feel better not worse. I do see aspects of a gendered gaze it in a lot of fitness videos, no denying it, but that doesn't mean I find them oppressive, or that they make me uncomfortable-- quite the contrary. I have literally 100s of them and have been been using them for more than 10 years. I even enjoy the classic Firms, though many don't.

I'm sorry if my post brought back bad memories of strident, oppressing feminists from your New England women's college grad school. I'm not like them, promise ;-).

Last edited by Hej; 03-14-10 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 03-15-10, 02:02 PM  
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No one else is bothered by Mark Blanchard groping all the women in his Progressive Yoga dvd ? ?

YES I was very bothered by it. Also by the way he slaps his wife on her butt when she is in down dog and brags to everyone that she is is his wife, and then later on while she is lying down he goes to sit on her chest with his crotch stuck into her face and they share a private joke. SO very inappropriate for a video and even for a live class.

Costumes, boobs, makeup, comments, etc. do not bother me. I have enough to worry about thinking about my own physique and wardrobe
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Old 03-15-10, 02:08 PM  
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Wow, remind me not to buy those Mark Blanchard dvds!!!! (they're too advanced for me anyway, but I did find two sets cheaply for other vf'ers a few years ago).

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Old 03-15-10, 07:04 PM  
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I don't own any Mark Blanchard DVDs nor will I ever - for several reasons - but boy, he sounds utterly disgusting!!!
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Old 03-19-10, 07:49 PM  
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Prude or not, everyone has their limits. I don't mind Chalene's boobies, or her sister's (I'm thinking they're a nice tribute to the surgical art)--but I have found my limit with Sylwia's cool down on Tonique. Let's just say I now know she follows a rigorous hair removal regime. I won't be doing that cool down again, ever.
Before today, I totally couldn't relate to this post. However, my copy of Tonique arrived today from Mary. Wow, what a cool down. I can't believe that she put on a skimpy swimsuit for the cool down. Why???????
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Old 03-19-10, 08:51 PM  
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Not for a second did I think there was anything risque about CLX.
Going back to the OP, I have to agree with Lexy here. This week, I did all of the Burn wkouts., and had this thread in my mind. I see nothing untoward. She shows some cleavage...but nothing more than one would see on the average trip to the grocery store. Actually less - her tops are covering the midriff area.
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Old 03-19-10, 09:13 PM  
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the silly titles and comments inspiring you to be a sex goddess on fitness dvds don't really bother me at all. But what bothers me a lot is mark blanchard when i saw his progressive power yoga vol 1. I couldn't believe how he was groping all the women ! ! It looked like soft core porn and you could clearly see that he had a hard on ! !
ewwwwwwwwww!
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Old 03-20-10, 09:48 PM  
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Thanks!
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