Heavy weights dilemma

RubyBlue · 09-26-14, 11:50 AM

The thread on heavy weights for lower body got me thinking.

I have always enjoyed lifting heavy and made some good progress. I love strength and muscle, and I make the most aesthetic gains lifting this way.

However, whenever I start a heavy lifting program*, either DVD or paper, I get sick or injured. Every time. The sickness may be co-incidence but it happens so often that I don't think so.

(I have no underlying medical problems- everything's been checked out.)

I find higher-volume weights programs a bit boring and I feel that the high volume taxes my nervous system too much.

Do I just have to accept that heavy is not for me?

What alternatives can I do? I really, really need my muscle at my age and I'm in early menopause so I'm concerned about bones. I would like, somehow, to build a bit of muscle, or at least, maintain what I have.

Any suggestions? Can I build muscle and protect my bones without doing a heavy program? Thanks.

*By 'heavy' I mean paper or DVDs in the 6-8 rep range, like STS Meso 3 for example.

Chomper · 09-26-14, 12:14 PM

High volume means lots of reps and sets. Really heavy weights programs can actually be lower volume because you're doing lower reps. At least that is my understanding. If you want to do a DVD set like Cathe's meso 3, just cut down on the number of exercises and sets. Or better yet, pick a paper program.

I can recommend Robert Dos Remedios' book Power Strength Training. The workouts can be long and grueling, but it is a great resource that provides exercise info, info on rep ranges, number of sets. To be honest, I heard him on a podcast (he is a strength and conditioning coach at a community college) laughing with another strength coach about how bad the programs they were doing when they were high school/college athletes were-- and what they were describing sounded a lot like Cathe's weight workouts. They said "we just didn't know any better back then.") Take from that what you will.

I am doing a Nia Shanks paper program right now, and her programs are a lot in line with his book but minimalized to be more doable for a middle aged woman who is not a college athlete. So I highly recommend checking her out.

ETA: I probably should have started by asking what paper programs you've tried!

wlorrie · 09-26-14, 12:15 PM

You could try doing heavy weight training splits. You could do one body part a day for 15-20 minutes. I've done this in the past (with my upper body) and actually gained atrength and increased muscle definition. And since you are doing only 15-20 minutes, maybe you will avoid injuries/sickness??
Lorrie

RubyBlue · 09-26-14, 12:31 PM

Hi and thanks so much for the suggestions and explanations! Very interesting.

Yes, ironically I have all of Nia's programs, even the new 3x3 which is very low volume, and never done them!

And also, yes, a 20 minute upper/lower split sounds ideal.

I know of Robert Dos Remedios but I haven't read that book.

Thanks again- very helpful! Some thinking and investigating to be done.

Sophie · 09-26-14, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chomper

High volume means lots of reps and sets. Really heavy weights programs can actually be lower volume because you're doing lower reps. At least that is my understanding.

That's more or less the idea. You can think of volume as total work done, figuring in load (intensity), reps, sets done per week or per workout. So it is, as Chomper says, possible to work in a heavy rep range, but not necessarily do high volume workouts.

It's good you recognize the type of programming that causes you to get sick (and high volume/intensity is associated with a temporary suppression of the immune system) and the suggestion of paper workouts is a good one. It might give you the flexibility you need to continue to work with the rep range and exercise types that are useful for you, and staying within your own safe zone as far as immunity goes.

Aside from the good suggestions you've already gotten, I think the NROL books and Mark Veerstegen's Core Performance book might might also fit the bill.

RubyBlue · 09-26-14, 01:00 PM

Thanks. Yes, it's taken me literally years to recognise and accept that high volume and high intensity doesn't suit me!

I have NROL and got some good results from it (a long time ago now!) Maybe too much volume but I can adapt it. I had 'Core Performance' and even the video- must dig them out.

Thanks very much- this is all reassuring to me as I don't want to give up heavy work but the volume has to be cut down, for sure. Hoping I can stick to it, this time, and not go overboard!

Jane P. · 09-26-14, 01:10 PM

If you start to feel some strain or an ache somewhere, back off. You may have to progress more slowly than you would like. You may also require longer rest periods and more rest days. Sometimes it takes connective tissue longer to adapt to increased weight loads than it does muscle tissue. Foam rolling may also help.

I'm sure you know this already, but be sure your form is correct.

mle777 · 09-26-14, 01:41 PM

How many days a week were you lifting when you tried previous programs? I have found that 2-3 (leaning toward two) is my max per week. Anything over that and I have issues similar to you. Maybe try two days a week with lots of walking and mobility work/flexibility training and if after a month you seem to be doing well, then try and add in the third day. I wouldn't go beyond three days. Some people just need more rest and recovery especially if they have otherwise stressful lives (i.e., long commute, stressful job, sleep issues).

RubyBlue · 09-26-14, 01:50 PM

Thanks- I was doing more like 5 days a week!!! Plus cardio. Yikes.

So yes, more rest days, walking in between, back off if I feel pain.

My days are very busy with work, commuting and children etc. so I just can't do the volume I could when I was younger. I need more recovery time.

Hopefully at 45 I have learned my lesson!

Thanks, this is all very helpful and confirms what I was thinking, but more importantly, makes me more determined to do things differently, at last.

upperwside · 09-26-14, 02:14 PM

I find when lifting heavy I do not do added cardio now. I take the dog on long walks and I live in the city.. so lots of walking. If I add in other cardio.. I get too lean and feel like crap. You really need to nourish your body and have lots of rest with really heavy lifting. Also.. cross train.. lift heavy for 4 or 5 weeks.. and take a week or two on circuit training or some thing of less intensity .. then go back.

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09-26-14, 11:50 AM
RubyBlue Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, UK	Heavy weights dilemma The thread on heavy weights for lower body got me thinking. I have always enjoyed lifting heavy and made some good progress. I love strength and muscle, and I make the most aesthetic gains lifting this way. However, whenever I start a heavy lifting program, either DVD or paper, I get sick or injured. Every time. The sickness may be co-incidence but it happens so often that I don't think so. (I have no underlying medical problems- everything's been checked out.) I find higher-volume weights programs a bit boring and I feel that the high volume taxes my nervous system too much. Do I just have to accept that heavy is not for me? What alternatives can I do? I really, really need my muscle at my age and I'm in early menopause so I'm concerned about bones. I would like, somehow, to build a bit of muscle, or at least, maintain what I have. Any suggestions? Can I build muscle and protect my bones without doing a heavy program? Thanks. By 'heavy' I mean paper or DVDs in the 6-8 rep range, like STS Meso 3 for example.

09-26-14, 12:14 PM
Chomper Join Date: Nov 2010	High volume means lots of reps and sets. Really heavy weights programs can actually be lower volume because you're doing lower reps. At least that is my understanding. If you want to do a DVD set like Cathe's meso 3, just cut down on the number of exercises and sets. Or better yet, pick a paper program. I can recommend Robert Dos Remedios' book Power Strength Training. The workouts can be long and grueling, but it is a great resource that provides exercise info, info on rep ranges, number of sets. To be honest, I heard him on a podcast (he is a strength and conditioning coach at a community college) laughing with another strength coach about how bad the programs they were doing when they were high school/college athletes were-- and what they were describing sounded a lot like Cathe's weight workouts. They said "we just didn't know any better back then.") Take from that what you will. I am doing a Nia Shanks paper program right now, and her programs are a lot in line with his book but minimalized to be more doable for a middle aged woman who is not a college athlete. So I highly recommend checking her out. ETA: I probably should have started by asking what paper programs you've tried! Last edited by Chomper; 09-26-14 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Add a question

09-26-14, 12:15 PM
wlorrie Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Central Mass	You could try doing heavy weight training splits. You could do one body part a day for 15-20 minutes. I've done this in the past (with my upper body) and actually gained atrength and increased muscle definition. And since you are doing only 15-20 minutes, maybe you will avoid injuries/sickness?? Lorrie

09-26-14, 12:31 PM
RubyBlue Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, UK	Hi and thanks so much for the suggestions and explanations! Very interesting. Yes, ironically I have all of Nia's programs, even the new 3x3 which is very low volume, and never done them! And also, yes, a 20 minute upper/lower split sounds ideal. I know of Robert Dos Remedios but I haven't read that book. Thanks again- very helpful! Some thinking and investigating to be done.

09-26-14, 01:00 PM
RubyBlue Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, UK	Thanks. Yes, it's taken me literally years to recognise and accept that high volume and high intensity doesn't suit me! I have NROL and got some good results from it (a long time ago now!) Maybe too much volume but I can adapt it. I had 'Core Performance' and even the video- must dig them out. Thanks very much- this is all reassuring to me as I don't want to give up heavy work but the volume has to be cut down, for sure. Hoping I can stick to it, this time, and not go overboard!

09-26-14, 01:10 PM
Jane P. VF Supporter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Colorado Springs	If you start to feel some strain or an ache somewhere, back off. You may have to progress more slowly than you would like. You may also require longer rest periods and more rest days. Sometimes it takes connective tissue longer to adapt to increased weight loads than it does muscle tissue. Foam rolling may also help. I'm sure you know this already, but be sure your form is correct. __________________ "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time." Leo Tolstoy

09-26-14, 01:41 PM
mle777 Join Date: Dec 2004	How many days a week were you lifting when you tried previous programs? I have found that 2-3 (leaning toward two) is my max per week. Anything over that and I have issues similar to you. Maybe try two days a week with lots of walking and mobility work/flexibility training and if after a month you seem to be doing well, then try and add in the third day. I wouldn't go beyond three days. Some people just need more rest and recovery especially if they have otherwise stressful lives (i.e., long commute, stressful job, sleep issues). __________________ Emily 3x Tough Mudder

09-26-14, 01:50 PM
RubyBlue Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, UK	Thanks- I was doing more like 5 days a week!!! Plus cardio. Yikes. So yes, more rest days, walking in between, back off if I feel pain. My days are very busy with work, commuting and children etc. so I just can't do the volume I could when I was younger. I need more recovery time. Hopefully at 45 I have learned my lesson! Thanks, this is all very helpful and confirms what I was thinking, but more importantly, makes me more determined to do things differently, at last.

09-26-14, 02:14 PM
upperwside Join Date: May 2008 Location: On Canada 💗	I find when lifting heavy I do not do added cardio now. I take the dog on long walks and I live in the city.. so lots of walking. If I add in other cardio.. I get too lean and feel like crap. You really need to nourish your body and have lots of rest with really heavy lifting. Also.. cross train.. lift heavy for 4 or 5 weeks.. and take a week or two on circuit training or some thing of less intensity .. then go back.