Not to beat a dead horse, but...

[jordan]

I can understand that different people will have different tolerances for the project timeline. But from someone who has participated in almost every Cathe presale, I still consider Cathe’s presales not only a good deal but a safe bet. As I read over this discussion a few things come to mind.

I would rather have them work on the DVDs than work on clips.
The teaser clip gave me an idea of what the workouts would be like and as someone mentioned "New twist on familiar moves!" says classic Cathe with some new additions. Also, I don’t think the speculation about the reason behind the delay in the posting of the clips has any basis in fact. I feel the information posted by SNM is more likely the truth as it is more cost effective for them to get this project done than do anything else that would cause delays.

I think it is a valid point that this presale has multiple workouts and the work that goes into this project is a lot different than an instructor that is putting out one or two workouts. I also wonder why so much was scheduled around the same time as a big presale project. But, being a long time customer I factored that into my decision to order.

When I pre-ordered I never saw a deadline put out for delivery of this series. There was an estimated time frame that was clearly posted as an estimate. Estimates are something that people have requested in the past and it was said in many discussions that they would not hold estimates as absolutes. I gave the project 2-3 weeks leeway. I think they will still be off by another week or two. However, I think they’ve been really good about delivering updates and whoever is answering questions about the project has done so in a timely manner.

I believe the clips will come soon enough and they will be better than most instructors offer in reference to their length.

jordan

[caligurl]

Originally Posted by Pascal

Just some speculations here...

The STS series is not the feather in SNM's cap that I think they expected it to be. It was a great undertaking and I think it is a great series that will definitely garner strength gains (it did for me), but I don't think it sold nearly as well as SNM hoped it would. Again, I have zero proof of this and have no idea how much money they made or how much they expected to make.

Making STS probably cost SNM A LOT of money (even with the repeat footage, I still think that paying for all that custom music (whether you like the music or not) was really expensive and using NFL Productions to film and edit STS was probably not cheap either. They even 'hired' backgrounders and I suspect they were paid more than Cathe's 'regular' backgrounders).

I think SNM looked at all the preorders and figured out how much money they'd made and how much they had to spend on STS.

When Cathe and SNM released clips of STS on their blog (and they released lots of clips and were really excited about them), it seemed like there were more negative comments than positive (hate the music, don't like the backgrounders, can't stand the counting out loud, still moves too fast, etc.).

There were lots of STS preorder cancellations. Some of those cancellations for sure came from a strong dislike of the clips, but I suspect most cancellations came from customers who were sooooooo tired of the length of the presale that they lost interest, moved on to something else, or became irritated by the long, long wait. SNM probably thought the cancellations came from viewing the clips and I think that is why they are hesitant to show clips. Remember when the clips were up at Collage for Shock Cardio and yanked before the day was over? I think SNM worries that preview clips = cancellations.

Again, this is 100% speculation.

i've said this before (but not quite as eloquently as you!)

i honestly do think they are afraid that clips = cancellations!

[caligurl]

Originally Posted by DEEDEE

I totally agree Erica. When you think about it, it truely is amazing that she is still so successful with that 'my way or the highway' attitude Cathe seems to have when it comes to her business.

i'm so glad there are other instrctors/companies out there that still care about the customer and care about meeting deadlines... amy and kelly come to mind!

[steakhousegirl]

I'd take SNM's business practices any day over BeachBody's.

[DirtDiva]

Originally Posted by jordan

I can understand that different people will have different tolerances for the project timeline. But from someone who has participated in almost every Cathe presale, I still consider Cathe’s presales not only a good deal but a safe bet. As I read over this discussion a few things come to mind.

I would rather have them work on the DVDs than work on clips.
The teaser clip gave me an idea of what the workouts would be like and as someone mentioned "New twist on familiar moves!" says classic Cathe with some new additions. Also, I don’t think the speculation about the reason behind the delay in the posting of the clips has any basis in fact. I feel the information posted by SNM is more likely the truth as it is more cost effective for them to get this project done than do anything else that would cause delays.

I think it is a valid point that this presale has multiple workouts and the work that goes into this project is a lot different than an instructor that is putting out one or two workouts. I also wonder why so much was scheduled around the same time as a big presale project. But, being a long time customer I factored that into my decision to order.

When I pre-ordered I never saw a deadline put out for delivery of this series. There was an estimated time frame that was clearly posted as an estimate. Estimates are something that people have requested in the past and it was said in many discussions that they would not hold estimates as absolutes. I gave the project 2-3 weeks leeway. I think they will still be off by another week or two. However, I think they’ve been really good about delivering updates and whoever is answering questions about the project has done so in a timely manner.

I believe the clips will come soon enough and they will be better than most instructors offer in reference to their length.

jordan

You said everything I thought in a nano-second without the work of writing it!

I've not been around that long, but long enough to read this same discussion several times. Since working out with dvd's for a few years I've not come across another instructor I like more then Cathe that offers such high quality versatile workouts. To me, its worth the wait. I suppose what's disconcerting is the inevitable bashing and when you like something, you don't want to see what you like constantly kicked around. There are plenty of instructors that are *darlings* on this board that I can't handle, but I'm not about to put them down either. I just don't read that thread. I can understand the idea of putting money into a presale and wanting the product in a timely matter, but if this is the norm, then figure it out already if its disappointing. No disrespect intended, but it makes sense to me from past history.

[Debbie S.]

Originally Posted by DirtDiva

You said everything I thought in a nano-second without the work of writing it!

I've not been around that long, but long enough to read this same discussion several times. Since working out with dvd's for a few years I've not come across another instructor I like more then Cathe that offers such high quality versatile workouts. To me, its worth the wait. I suppose what's disconcerting is the inevitable bashing and when you like something, you don't want to see what you like constantly kicked around. There are plenty of instructors that are *darlings* on this board that I can't handle, but I'm not about to put them down either. I just don't read that thread. I can understand the idea of putting money into a presale and wanting the product in a timely matter, but if this is the norm, then figure it out already if its disappointing. No disrespect intended, but it makes sense to me from past history.

Totally understandable.

I've made peace with my SNM issue and have moved on. I took a deep look at myself and didn't like what I was seeing here at VF. I was so bitter with the sound issue and Chris' response to me (it wasn't an attack on me personally, but their whole fan base) , that I kept bringing this issue up. For me, the horse is dead.

But I do want to address the SNM vs Beachbody customer service issue. Beachbody has ALWAYS made things right with me. ALWAYS!
Even if it took 2-3 times, and I never had to go through the hassle of returning a defective DVD.

[gigi]

Originally Posted by Conni

I agree Rose, having a thick skin is a prerequisite in this industry, and I wonder if these workouts are as redundant as I suspect they may be ( hence why I cancelled to begin with).....

Or hence the real reason they aren't posting clips!

[Hilary]

This may be a little off topic, but I'm wondering if there was ever any idea of having an infomercial for STS? Surely she would get many more sales that way. It seems like it would be very suitable as an infomercial product, seeing as it was a whole program with a book and everything ... similar to P90X but without the supplements. And there certainly wouldn't be a lack of people willing to give testimonials. Moreover, those who have watched Fit TV would know who Cathe was ... it's not like she's a complete unknown. I personally liked STS, although I'm wrapped up in Metamorphosis right now ... who knows if I won't someday return to heavy weights. If I did, I would do an STS rotation again for sure. I didn't order Shock Cardio or the latest series, so I don't have a dog in this particular race.

[Sass]

Originally Posted by Hilary

This may be a little off topic, but I'm wondering if there was ever any idea of having an infomercial for STS? Surely she would get many more sales that way. It seems like it would be very suitable as an infomercial product, seeing as it was a whole program with a book and everything ... similar to P90X but without the supplements. And there certainly wouldn't be a lack of people willing to give testimonials. Moreover, those who have watched Fit TV would know who Cathe was ... it's not like she's a complete unknown. I personally liked STS, although I'm wrapped up in Metamorphosis right now ... who knows if I won't someday return to heavy weights. If I did, I would do an STS rotation again for sure. I didn't order Shock Cardio or the latest series, so I don't have a dog in this particular race.

I remember someone asked about that over at Cathe's forum a while back and SNM answered with infomercials cost a lot of money so it wasn't an option. It would be cool to see something like that. More customers, fans and money for Cathe.

[PhyllisG]

I think that would have been a big plus for them.