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Old 01-11-09, 09:09 PM  
Debbie S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrien_73
Bee, I appreciate your post because I just finished BC1, and it was my first exposure to this series. I was all set to call BB tomorrow to return it--for all the reasons you mention. Now I will try some of the other workouts & see how I feel about them first.
Adrien, definitely give it a whirl before returning them. These workout pack a lot of punch in a short period of time.

I know it's hard to grasp, but you can get a kick butt workout in a short period of time. You don't need to lift for hours if you work hard enough.

Lisa, in another thread I suggested following the P90X rotation protocol, 3 strength weeks 1 active rest week. During the active rest week is when I would do Burn Intervals and the other workout on Disc 7 that is similar. I do think that these workouts make great tools in my fitness inventory.

M, I just did finished a month of P90X classic. CLX is seriously kicking my butt. I can see how other hardcore P90Xers are experiencing the same thing.

Bee, I could have written your post. I'm still finding it hard to accurately describe this system, and it's been frustrating for me. Like kettlebells, it will be a system where I'll stay mute in recommending it, because it is different.

The word compound is used for this system, but I really have a hard grasping that this is the right terminology for this system. I'm not a huge fan of compound exercises, because either my upper or lower body never gets the proper workout, because I normally have to use light weights with compound moves. Not with this series. You will use MUCH heavier weights with this system than any other workout that consist of compound moves. Much like P90X, the goal is to make sure that your last 3 reps are hard. The rep range is 10-12 reps.

Because the rep speed is slow and controlled, your lower body is worked in a isometric fashion. If you concentrate on contracting your muscles during the squats and lunges, you'll feel DOMS in areas of your legs where you most likely haven't felt before, or in a really long time. For me, my entire thighs, the entire sweep, and my butt and hamstrings have DOMS, and so does my upper body.
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Old 01-11-09, 09:40 PM  
bee
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Oh, I forgot to mention..... part of the reason BC1 didn't do much for me is maybe because I was not watching the tv in order to stay in good alignment, and I may have been going through the reps too quickly. After having done BC2 and BC3, I could believe that may have been my problem on BC1. I can't wait to try it again in the morning and see how it goes!
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Old 01-12-09, 02:57 AM  
Debbie M
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa C
I found Burn it Off, to be very poorly sequenced. But, I think it can be rescued and made into a good workout, for me. What was strange to me was that the first 5 intervals were the hardest, and the last 6 seemed considerably easier. I think the order should be switched (and can be because the workout is chaptered well.) Also, she kept stressing that you should go anaerobic during the intervals, but there was only 1 minute of rest total in between the two sets. To get truly anaerobic, you need to allow a little bit of rest between the intervals. Again, this can be modified fairly easily. Or you can just so semi-hard during the intervals and build intensity to the end of the workout, but you probably won't be anaerobic during all the intervals.
I agree that it is poorly sequenced and why would you want to anaerobic taxing the very system you are trying to rest in order to gain lean muscle mass?

Deb
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Old 01-12-09, 03:36 AM  
Debbie M
 
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Hi there,

Even though I have been the most vocal about the reasons I dislike CLX, that does not mean I would not recommend it to you or anyone else.

It is just not for me because I was looking for a hypertrophy system and I do not think this system fits the bill.

I also personally dislike combination moves, especially when my primary goal is lean mass.

It does not matter how many people claim they love it, look fabulous or build muscle from CLX, it is not OPTIMAL for the purpose of hypertrophy.

Of course, people will show improvements, especially if they have not been working out as intensely or as regularly. If you have been doing primarily muscle endurance workouts, you will certainly gaim more muscle with CLX.

If you personally like the way CLX is set-up and you don't care that it is not optimal for gaining muscle, then please do not worry about my opinion of the system.

If your only goal is to improve your physique, there is no way that CLX can fail.

I think the system, especially if combined with the recommended nutrition program, would burn a geat deal of bodyfat and thus improve definition. That is what I see in the test group - lower bodyfat and better definition.

If you want to try to alter CLX to help ensure you gain muscle, my biggest recommendation would be to dump the cardio workouts that come with CLX and do your own cardio (no circuits!) a couple of times a week on opposite days from the strength training workouts. Keep your cardio short, 20-30 minutes is optimal.

The weighted vest idea is also excellent in order to make sure the legs do not suffer from the combination moves.

Certaily make sure that you do not follow the CLX low calorie diet if you want to gain muscle. Unless you are using a nutrient re-partitioning agent, you simply cannot make significant muscle gains while in a negative caloric balance. One goal will always suffer.

I am probably more specific in my goals than many VFers, so please take that into consideration.

Some people over-react to my opinion about CLX without taking into account what I am actually saying. They think that I must be wrong because they like their results. The truth is that the two opinions are not mutually exclusive.

HTH

Deb
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Old 01-12-09, 03:54 AM  
Debbie M
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edie
I think, I may just start my 7-Day Prescription instead......
Hi Edie,

I just wanted to say that as much as I LOVE 7 Day Prescription, it is not a hypertrophy system either. If your goal is lean mass, I would try something else.

If you wanted to create a hypertrophy system with 7 Day Prescription, you would have to modify quite a bit (pause your DVD player after each set for proper rest so you can lift heavier, eliminate the Power Body and Cardioscultping Bootcamp workouts as they would take away from your lean mass gains, etc.).

The rep range indeed fits the hypertrophy definition (generally 8-12 for upper body) and the rep pace is as controlled as CLX, but each set is done back to back with no rest to create giant sets. You do a great deal more reps in 30 minutes with 7DP (cool, I made up a little code) than with CLX.

The muscle groups are organized much better IMO in 7DP and the moves are focused (not combination), but it will not cause significant hypertrophy if done as presented.

Just did not want you to be dissapointed.

Deb
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Old 01-12-09, 05:37 AM  
DRD0
 
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I would agree that this is more about getting fat loss. I also feel it may be aimed at the middle age woman. In just listening to the CD, there is a lot of talk about adding muscle to keep metabolism up as we age. So the average middle age woman who has been using light weights, will gain muscle, lose bodyfat on this. What will be interesting is if those of us who consistently strength train also make gains. Personally I have plenty of muscle, so losing the jiggle and extra bodyfat is what I want. Strengthwise, I am matching Chalene's weight already, and not failing, so will need to go up in weight.

After doing BC1 on Saturday, I cycled on my trainer on Sunday, and there definately was fatigued in the legs. So the endurance work is getting to my legs, and since my legs are well muscled already, if it leans them out great. I may slip the weighted vest on next week to work them more. I love strong legs.

Also, I appreciated Debbie M's posts. I think all the information about videos, especially ones that are so expensive is good. Give it to me, good, bad and ugly.
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Old 01-12-09, 06:17 AM  
upperwests
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRD0
I would agree that this is more about getting fat loss. I also feel it may be aimed at the middle age woman. In just listening to the CD, there is a lot of talk about adding muscle to keep metabolism up as we age. So the average middle age woman who has been using light weights, will gain muscle, lose bodyfat on this. What will be interesting is if those of us who consistently strength train also make gains. Personally I have plenty of muscle, so losing the jiggle and extra bodyfat is what I want. Strengthwise, I am matching Chalene's weight already, and not failing, so will need to go up in weight.

After doing BC1 on Saturday, I cycled on my trainer on Sunday, and there definately was fatigued in the legs. So the endurance work is getting to my legs, and since my legs are well muscled already, if it leans them out great. I may slip the weighted vest on next week to work them more. I love strong legs.

Also, I appreciated Debbie M's posts. I think all the information about videos, especially ones that are so expensive is good. Give it to me, good, bad and ugly.
I am a middle-aged woman (51 ouch!), who has been doing Cathe exclusively for two years. I needed a change and started CLX 3 weeks ago. I'm not sure the reason, but I AM seeing differences in my body.....both lower and upper. For some reason "Less is MORE" works for me!!! I really don't get it, as I kicked my butt doing Cathe's workouts. But I will admit, it was hard for me to go heavy with Cathe except for squats and deadlifts. Chalene's workouts are considerably shorter and I'm definitely seeing fat loss and more muscle definition. I know this sounds dorky, but I've been listening to her audio CD on a very regular basis......her voice just "stays" with me throughout the day and I realize that I am eating better. I've always been a "healthy" eater who ate "clean" as much as possible. But, I've really improved my eating these past few weeks.....so maybe that's the reason I'm seeing more results. For me, these shorter workouts really fit into my lifestyle much more and when I can work out longer (weekends), I do so....I'll add on a workout. I really appreciate everyone's knowledge and input on this website!!!!!
Paula
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Old 01-12-09, 06:49 AM  
Mary W
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Originally Posted by upperwests
I know this sounds dorky, but I've been listening to her audio CD on a very regular basis......her voice just "stays" with me throughout the day and I realize that I am eating better. Paula
Not dorky at all! I love her cd...loaned it to my son & his wife for a listen, and I'm already ready to get it back!!!
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Old 01-12-09, 07:12 AM  
Debbie M
 
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Paula,

I think that changing things up usually results in improvements. I never stick with one instructor or one fitness goal for more than 6 weeks so that I never stop seeing changes in various ways.

The lower training volume in CTX and the fact that Chalean offers a rest period after each set is very different than Cathe. I can certainly go much heavier in CLX.

Cathe's workouts, for the most part are muscle endurance workouts, even though she uses heavy weights. That is likely why you cannot go as heavy - you have to go lighter for muscle endurance.

(Out of all of my Cathe's. S&H is the only one I consider hypertrophy.)

Cathe is MUCH stronger than Chalene. Man...Cathe can go for 5 back to back 16 rep sets with more weight than Chalean can use for one set. If you have seen the Meso 2 clips, Cathe needs much more weight to reach failure in a 10-12 rep set with 60 second rest periods to recover than the male participant in CLX.

Cathe also overworks many muscle groups (biceps are a good example), which can cause a lack of results due to overtraining.

I am glad that I resisted cancelling STS when I ordered CLX (Whew!), but I know that I will be modifying STS to remove the excess volume for my smaller muscle groups.

I will be really depressed if I dislike STS as well as CLX! The clips of STS are not promising at the moment as it looks as if Cathe is not going slow and controlled enough in Meso 2 & 3. She should be moving like Chalene in CLX.

I believe that what you put in your mouth determines 80% of physique results, so I am not surprised that improving your diet may be a bigger factor in seeing changes in definition than than changing your workouts.

Resistance workouts themselves do not directly cause definition. They can only cause fat loss (by burning calories) and hence....increased definition. Definition is never a result of a specific type of exercise. That is a myth. Any combination of movement and nutrition that causes bodyfat loss increases definition.

Good luck with the rest of CLX,

Deb
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Old 01-12-09, 09:14 AM  
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It sounds like I need to start listening to Chalene's audio CD! I need a little kick in the pants - for some reason I am entrenched in the winter blahs....

Deb - are their ANY home videos out there that are truly focused on hypertrophy? Perhaps Cathe's S&H? I would love to build some muscle on my shoulders - do you think tacking on the shoulder segment from S&H 1-2x/week could help?
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