Zone 2 cardio, women, and Stacy Sims

[prettyinpink]

Leonana, many thanks for the articles. There do seem to be contradictions.

Alisoncooks, I hear you about LISS. I am at my lightest when I do the most walking and low-moderate cardio. Plus, what about all the studies, and probably common sense, that more activity through the day is better. I know “cardio” as a category is often different, but the zone 2 that is a current buzzword isn’t all that high of a heart rate.

I love the idea of HIIT because the workouts are shorter. I like efficiency. But I admit that I find it difficult to keep up a habit of short, hard HIIT 2 times per week, especially during months when I am really pushing my strength workouts.

Donnaamp and sherry, I agree that there isn’t one exact prescription for everyone, and that enjoyment figures into exercise success, too.

TracyQ, thank you for the link! I plan to watch it tonight. I have enjoyed some other interviews by Dr. Patrick. I don’t dislike HIIT but the mental block does get to me after a while, and then I go weeks without doing it. I am sure I don’t work as hard as I would if I were in a study for just two weeks and had a researcher watching me, lol, so even when I push myself really hard, I have to wonder if I am going to have the same results that research would suggest.

Brain benefits sound good, but does short-term measurement of certain brain-benefit chemicals mean better cognition or less Alzheimer’s as compared to other forms of exercise, years later? We’ll probably never know, because even if they could be studied, the people willing to do 1-2x/week HIIT for years on end probably are different in other ways to begin with, than those who wouldn’t, so how would we ever know that it is just the type of exercise that made the difference? Of course, this is the reason that a lot of lifestyle research is problematic. I guess we have to take what we can and then do what fits our own lives best.

[donnamp]

Originally Posted by sherry7899

Donna , I agree with you. While I love Team Body Project, the workouts they label.as HIIT are definitely not "real" HIIT. I think the last true HIIT workouts I remember doing are Turbo Fire. I have shoulder and back issues, so I don't really do HIIT anymore. I am worried about injuring myself.

I adore hour long dance workouts. I stick with them because I have fun doing them. I don't want to do exercise I hate.I do some exercise I don't enjoy as much, but I don't do anything I don't enjoy at all.

Me too, Sherry! I find my favorites are things like fusion workouts and steady state cardio - those give me the biggest mood boosts and I think that is an important part of fitness as well.

I do force myself to pick up some weights once in a while - (not just the light ones used in the fusion workouts) b/c I do believe there is benefit to be had in terms of remaining functional and independent as we age.

I do not want to do super heavy lifting or puke in a bucket workouts. I also don't want to do anything with the potential for injury - like super fast compound moves. I have a tweaky lower back and hip at times and I don't want to risk aggravating anything at all.

Donna

[TracyQ]

Rhonda Patrick has been singing the praises of the Norwegian 4x4 protocol. It’s 4 minutes at 75-80% of max heart rate and 3 minutes of slow recovery then repeat 3x.

https://fitnessvolt.com/dr-rhonda-pa...our%20protocol.

I remember back in the day of Cardio Coach which I loved, some people believed that it wasn’t real HIIT because the work intervals were too long to sustain a full out effort.

I didn’t care I always thought Sean O’Malley was a genius. I did my Cardio Coach faithfully on my treadmill and was in the best shape of my life.

I still have all my Cardio Coach playlists, but I no longer have my treadmill. I think I will pull them out and try them on my indoor bike.

[cataddict]

I’ve never heard of Stacy Sims either. If a writer doesn’t cite research---meaning research that isn’t just one “study” performed by a non-credentialed organization with few participants, sketchy methodology, and has never been replicated—I tend to take whatever they say with a barrel of salt. I would love to know if other sources have supported her ideas.

I don’t think there is one true way to fitness for older (or younger) people. Genetics always plays a large role, and over time a lot of us figure out what works for us to keep us relatively fit, healthy and engaged—I get bored easily and need to change it up.

Leonana, I don’t do super high impact either, and the proliferation of workouts now that call themselves “HiiT” and/or “Tabata” just annoy me. Frequently the HiiT isn’t really that intense, and the timing element of tabata isn’t the only factor in that type of training (and they aren’t that intense either IMHO). ETA, I overlooked the link you provided-D’OH!! Thanks!

I’m thinking there will eventually be new buzzwords that will supplant the current ones, much like labeling everything“extreme” and “max” faded away.

[warriorprincess]

Zone 2 builds the base and zone 5 builds the peak. But there's a continuum in between. If you're not a professional athlete, it's all good.

Hiit has a big dread factor for me, but I can talk myself into doing a Cathe style Hiit workout once or twice a month after I've slept really well for a few nights straight and my knee and ankle aren't twingy. I don't see myself ever working up the motivation for a real tabata style Hiit training session.

[Leonana]

cataddict, I agree with you about the intensity of some of the HIITs or tabata workouts. While I appreciate the low impact, it doesn’t get my heart rate up the same as high impact.

[star117]

From what I know, Dr sims is legit and worked mostly with athletes for a while and wrote the book Roar which was recently updated. Then she also wrote next level for the aging women. Mindy Pelz is not legit in mine and trusted sources (Dr's) opinions.

[prettyinpink]

I watched the first Rhonda Patrick clip and the one that mentions the 4x4 protocol, and found a few articles.

VO2 Max is a longevity predictor, and people who undergo conventional aerobic training in studies typically get an increase in their VO2Max. But Dr. Patrick mentioned that there are up to 40% of people that don’t respond to usual aerobic training by getting an increase in their VO2max, thus the interest in HIIT. This made me remember that documentary series years ago that Dr. Michael Moseley did, when HIIT was a newer thing. He had his VO2max and some other things like insulin measured, and then did supervised HIIT training in a lab, but his VO2 max didn’t improve with HIIT, and he was told he was one of those people who genetically do not respond to this type of training. So there are people who don’t have the typical response with either regular aerobic training or high intensity.

This article discusses people who are “nonresponders” in exercise studies. Aside from the problems assuming people are never going to respond to a certain type of exercise based only on their performance in one study, which could have happened for a number of reasons including that the VO2 max test is very uncomfortable and difficult and requires a lot of motivation to get through, it talks about many considerations. One is the wide individual variability in all types of exercise studies; within the average result we read from a study, there is a huge range from people, from no improvement to enormous improvements.

It talks about some research that has shown that many people who don’t have good results from aerobic training, will have good result with HIIT training, and vice versa. Also some non responders will respond when frequency or intensity is increased above that of the original protocol—some people need more cardio exercise than others to get the desired effect, just like how some people grow muscles with weight training more easily than others. But they say that researchers really shouldn’t use the word “nonresponders” with the public or imply that there are people who don’t benefit from any kind of exercise at all, because that just isn’t true.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6349783/


What I’m still looking for is any indication that the non-responders to certain types of exercise have anything to do with being either a man or a woman, or being a certain age. I think that being a “non-responder” might be different than what Dr. Sims is saying about better results with one vs the other, but it’s a place to start.

It also occurred to me that HIIT type of exercise hasn’t been studied for all that long, at least not in regular people who aren’t athletes. So it’s not surprising if there isn’t extensive information on HIIT in menopausal women to be found, yet, whereas there are many decades of studies of more conventional aerobic exercise.

[Messe]

Originally Posted by star117

From what I know, Dr sims is legit and worked mostly with athletes for a while and wrote the book Roar which was recently updated. Then she also wrote next level for the aging women. Mindy Pelz is not legit in mine and trusted sources (Dr's) opinions.

Credentials or lack thereof notwithstanding, both Stacy Sims and Mindy Pelz want you to buy their programs/products. That makes any and all "I know the way" claims suspect IMHO.

[donnamp]

Originally Posted by Messe

Credentials or lack thereof notwithstanding, both Stacy Sims and Mindy Pelz want you to buy their programs/products. That makes any and all "I know the way" claims suspect IMHO.

I agree with this - for the most part I'm suspicious of anyone who tells me there is only ONE way to get somewhere and it is THEIR way.

I don't know much about either person so I don't mean this to be overly critical of them in particular, I would feel that way about any person or program that presented that way.

Donna